logiclife
10-08 01:45 PM
Excuse me for being a little blunt...but
People really need to stand up and see what it takes to bring about change. People are loathe to drive 10 miles and attend a state chapter meeting, and you want to overhaul a system to the extent that you get credit for time/experience in US?
I am not saying its a good or bad thing. What I am saying is, what you are asking for is a major overhaul. GC is driven by A PARTICULAR POSITION offered by A PARTICULAR EMPLOYER, where its proven that NO US CITIZEN WAS WILLING, QUALIFIED AND ABLE TO do the job. How can your previous job get you credit for such a position and petition driven GC process? If you want that, then system needs major change where GC is not drive by one particular job offer from one particular employer who sponsors you.
So basically, you are looking for a RADICAL change in the system. Nothing wrong with dreaming, but kindly show some friggin activity and effort on your part before putting up new ideas on forums.
Otherwise if you are sitting around and
1. Offering new innovative ideas for GC reform on forum posts that lawmakers dont read.
2. Never go to lawmaker meetings in DC or locally or attend any local meetups of IV.
3. Cancel recurring contributions as soon as your EAD card shows up in your mailbox.
Then please, keep your really creative and excellant ideas to yourself. Because Ted Kennedy is not going to change the system and give you credit for working here since 1999 or 1929 and reset your PD to 1999 or 1929 BASED ON YOUR BRILLIANT IDEAS on forum posts.
People really need to stand up and see what it takes to bring about change. People are loathe to drive 10 miles and attend a state chapter meeting, and you want to overhaul a system to the extent that you get credit for time/experience in US?
I am not saying its a good or bad thing. What I am saying is, what you are asking for is a major overhaul. GC is driven by A PARTICULAR POSITION offered by A PARTICULAR EMPLOYER, where its proven that NO US CITIZEN WAS WILLING, QUALIFIED AND ABLE TO do the job. How can your previous job get you credit for such a position and petition driven GC process? If you want that, then system needs major change where GC is not drive by one particular job offer from one particular employer who sponsors you.
So basically, you are looking for a RADICAL change in the system. Nothing wrong with dreaming, but kindly show some friggin activity and effort on your part before putting up new ideas on forums.
Otherwise if you are sitting around and
1. Offering new innovative ideas for GC reform on forum posts that lawmakers dont read.
2. Never go to lawmaker meetings in DC or locally or attend any local meetups of IV.
3. Cancel recurring contributions as soon as your EAD card shows up in your mailbox.
Then please, keep your really creative and excellant ideas to yourself. Because Ted Kennedy is not going to change the system and give you credit for working here since 1999 or 1929 and reset your PD to 1999 or 1929 BASED ON YOUR BRILLIANT IDEAS on forum posts.
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neelu
05-23 01:25 PM
Finished calling the senators. Got hold of 2 + 7 senators.
Started sending emails.
Please everyone.........this is the time.
Together we can do it.
Started sending emails.
Please everyone.........this is the time.
Together we can do it.
anurakt
10-25 12:49 PM
Guys,
I never beleive in polls. The questions are always framed in such a way so that max people go and answer the way the poll wants....example below
Q1 ... Do you as an American support CIR for resolving immigration issues this country faces ?
Q2 ... Do you as an American support CIR so that illegal immigrants be a Citizen of this country ?
Looks at the above two questions, I think for Q1 lot of people would say "Yes" and "No" for the Q2, so I never beleive on the polls , the questions are always framed to get the answer the poll wants.
I never beleive in polls. The questions are always framed in such a way so that max people go and answer the way the poll wants....example below
Q1 ... Do you as an American support CIR for resolving immigration issues this country faces ?
Q2 ... Do you as an American support CIR so that illegal immigrants be a Citizen of this country ?
Looks at the above two questions, I think for Q1 lot of people would say "Yes" and "No" for the Q2, so I never beleive on the polls , the questions are always framed to get the answer the poll wants.
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jgh_res
07-20 02:25 PM
I pledged 100 $ today for Aman's expenses because I felt really bad abt that. I donated around 300$ till date including 20$ recurring contribution.
I filed my 485 long time ago. But when people who are really seeing the fruits of IV (July VB reversal) are higly reluctant to donate even a few bucks, while they are spending thousand's of dollars for their 485 stuff, I am kinda confused.
Are people really that selfish not to donate a few bucks(may be 5$per month) to an organization which is making them file 485 and reversed all this fiasco.
Zoooom, Anzeraja & All pledgers,
Thanks for driving this effort. Subsequent to Aman's post, we can direct these pledges to the normal contribution drive for IV.
It was amazing to see such response to call for funds for Aman and other core members.
I filed my 485 long time ago. But when people who are really seeing the fruits of IV (July VB reversal) are higly reluctant to donate even a few bucks, while they are spending thousand's of dollars for their 485 stuff, I am kinda confused.
Are people really that selfish not to donate a few bucks(may be 5$per month) to an organization which is making them file 485 and reversed all this fiasco.
Zoooom, Anzeraja & All pledgers,
Thanks for driving this effort. Subsequent to Aman's post, we can direct these pledges to the normal contribution drive for IV.
It was amazing to see such response to call for funds for Aman and other core members.
more...
kate123
11-17 03:51 PM
Done.. Thanks
h1techSlave
05-01 04:56 PM
Can you add another question in the poll?
Would you be willing to contribute towards this work? (Hiring a lawyer/FOIA request etc.)
Done, added poll.
Would you be willing to contribute towards this work? (Hiring a lawyer/FOIA request etc.)
Done, added poll.
more...
100mya
11-17 08:21 PM
Sent the email
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gjoe
10-08 04:24 PM
If you want to play chess you got to play it by the rules. If you think you can win the game if we can change the rules, I would say it is not impossible but a long shot.
In USA every citizen is supposed to follow the law that is the fundamental reason why this place has been attracting so many immigrants ( anybody can pursue their dreams if they follow the law). If you think govt officials are above that you are wrong, if you encourage that by accepting it, that will not make this place any better than other third world democracies. All govt officials in the USA are accountable for what they are entrusted with, if you didn't know about it until now there is something wrong with the system we are working with. I can say this with full authority on this matter because I work for the goverment.
Let us give it a little though and see if fighting to make the dept follow the law is worth while. If we think it is not, getting a GC and living here is not any better than living back home.
In USA every citizen is supposed to follow the law that is the fundamental reason why this place has been attracting so many immigrants ( anybody can pursue their dreams if they follow the law). If you think govt officials are above that you are wrong, if you encourage that by accepting it, that will not make this place any better than other third world democracies. All govt officials in the USA are accountable for what they are entrusted with, if you didn't know about it until now there is something wrong with the system we are working with. I can say this with full authority on this matter because I work for the goverment.
Let us give it a little though and see if fighting to make the dept follow the law is worth while. If we think it is not, getting a GC and living here is not any better than living back home.
more...
vallabhu
07-20 10:24 AM
Great going guys. Keep it coming. Yes we can for sure extend this to Monday. The more the better.
Can some one tell how to cancel 20$ subscription and start 50$ subscription.
Can some one tell how to cancel 20$ subscription and start 50$ subscription.
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zCool
01-30 12:59 PM
Just for replying to this query - I have got 40 or so negative reputations.:confused: I understand that this is Free Lawyer Conference call forum.
Might have something to do with completely incorrect coment you left regarding 1 yr validity of h1 and all.. it's so not true that probably angered a few members with low BS tolerence
Might have something to do with completely incorrect coment you left regarding 1 yr validity of h1 and all.. it's so not true that probably angered a few members with low BS tolerence
more...
anzerraja
07-20 10:51 AM
Sam2006
I think you didn't notice my message.
Looks like you haven't filled in your pledge amount. Could you do please ?
Thanks
Anzer
Hello Folks
Thank you for all the efforts but we have a looong way to go
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p96kObnZMpVWFczU3Fn9GTQ&hl=en
to keep track and update
I think you didn't notice my message.
Looks like you haven't filled in your pledge amount. Could you do please ?
Thanks
Anzer
Hello Folks
Thank you for all the efforts but we have a looong way to go
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p96kObnZMpVWFczU3Fn9GTQ&hl=en
to keep track and update
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javadeveloper
08-18 01:34 PM
Everybody has been waiting for his/her green card and congratulations to all those who has got their GC. On the other hand it is really unfair and to some extent unethical on the part of USICS not follow a fair system.
There are several people in 2004, 2005 who have been paitently waiting for their turn only to see that people behind them getting approved.
Several of us have writtent to Ombudsman, Director but of no avail.
Not sure what else can be done? Any Idea? Do we have any liaison with AILA who can take up this matter.
Not only this situation , CIS is not fair in many situations.
1.Issuing Stamping to liars(Who says they don't have intention to settle in US when they go for F1/H1 stamping) and rejecting stamping to honest people(whom they doubt that they may settle permanently in US) at consulate.
2.Making Eb2/Eb3 current(July 2007) for the purpose of fees.
3.Substitute labors
4.Giving visa number to spouse(for example not even passed 10th standard) of EB2 applicant , instead of EB3 qualified candidate(for example Computer Science Graduate from reputed universities)
5.Not following PD
There are several people in 2004, 2005 who have been paitently waiting for their turn only to see that people behind them getting approved.
Several of us have writtent to Ombudsman, Director but of no avail.
Not sure what else can be done? Any Idea? Do we have any liaison with AILA who can take up this matter.
Not only this situation , CIS is not fair in many situations.
1.Issuing Stamping to liars(Who says they don't have intention to settle in US when they go for F1/H1 stamping) and rejecting stamping to honest people(whom they doubt that they may settle permanently in US) at consulate.
2.Making Eb2/Eb3 current(July 2007) for the purpose of fees.
3.Substitute labors
4.Giving visa number to spouse(for example not even passed 10th standard) of EB2 applicant , instead of EB3 qualified candidate(for example Computer Science Graduate from reputed universities)
5.Not following PD
more...
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jasmin45
07-11 08:26 PM
Excellent Dude! .. that is what we need to do... youtube/google all the videos related to this campaign.... Few areas of improvements to be noted synchronization between visuals and the vocals... and it also ended abruptly..
If possible, please try to get this straight and youtube it again...
If possible, please try to get this straight and youtube it again...
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Ramba
04-20 03:50 PM
First there is not enough AC21 cases to give feed back how their 485s were handled (approved/detail of RFE/denied) due to job change. Becase, almost all guys who used ac21 still in waiting game due to retrogression.
The main thing what I see here is, USCIS has not yet published the final regulation to interpret AC21 act, even after 7 years of passing AC21 act. They are issuing internal field office memo. These memos are non-binding. In other words, one cannot firmly relay on memos or challange the USCIS decision on AC21 portability according to these memos.
However, sofar, these memos are very favorable to workers, including allowing self-employment, one can port even before 140 approval ect...However, USCIS were cautioning in each memos, that the final regulation may be restrictive than memos. If they took restrictive position in final regulation, it will be a huge problem for most peoples, as they might have violated the final regulation.
Another issue is, definition of "same or similar occupational classification". This is going to be very subjective based on how uscis adjudicator going to compare old and new jobs. The memo says by comparing job duties both old and new jobs and based on SOC or ONET code of old and new job they have to decide both jobs are same or similar. As there is no clear regulation it is big issue to go howmuch level of similarity between jobs. For example one guy may think "database administrator" and "network administrator" are similar job to port. The USCIS may think it may not. It is not quantified.
I feel IV should advocate on liberal/quantifyable defintion for similar jobs in AC21 interpretation. For example, all computer professional jobs should be considered as similar jobs as well as all engineering jobs should be considered similar to port. For example mining engineer can port to chemical engineer job etc...
Also, if any one port to self employment in similar job, there is no much information available wheter one should open a company in his/her name or not (by just working in 1099 etc.. for multiple positions). This needs to have a flexible option for workers, like one can work in 1099 w/o opening a bussiness.
Also, IV should advocate on not to have any restrictive interpretation in final regulation.
The main thing what I see here is, USCIS has not yet published the final regulation to interpret AC21 act, even after 7 years of passing AC21 act. They are issuing internal field office memo. These memos are non-binding. In other words, one cannot firmly relay on memos or challange the USCIS decision on AC21 portability according to these memos.
However, sofar, these memos are very favorable to workers, including allowing self-employment, one can port even before 140 approval ect...However, USCIS were cautioning in each memos, that the final regulation may be restrictive than memos. If they took restrictive position in final regulation, it will be a huge problem for most peoples, as they might have violated the final regulation.
Another issue is, definition of "same or similar occupational classification". This is going to be very subjective based on how uscis adjudicator going to compare old and new jobs. The memo says by comparing job duties both old and new jobs and based on SOC or ONET code of old and new job they have to decide both jobs are same or similar. As there is no clear regulation it is big issue to go howmuch level of similarity between jobs. For example one guy may think "database administrator" and "network administrator" are similar job to port. The USCIS may think it may not. It is not quantified.
I feel IV should advocate on liberal/quantifyable defintion for similar jobs in AC21 interpretation. For example, all computer professional jobs should be considered as similar jobs as well as all engineering jobs should be considered similar to port. For example mining engineer can port to chemical engineer job etc...
Also, if any one port to self employment in similar job, there is no much information available wheter one should open a company in his/her name or not (by just working in 1099 etc.. for multiple positions). This needs to have a flexible option for workers, like one can work in 1099 w/o opening a bussiness.
Also, IV should advocate on not to have any restrictive interpretation in final regulation.
more...
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prachisahoo
05-09 10:28 PM
Hello Friends
We can not win this battle without attention from visual media like News Channel.
Traditionally we Indians are known to be camera shy silent listeners. But without the news and print media this issue will not catch enough attention from Washington to be debated. So, we have to come out of our shells and share emotional stories over news media. An inexpensive way of doing this without having to travel to any place would be to just switch on our webcam or camcorder and speak. We have to speak about the pains and put it into a story format. The content should highlight on the inefficiencies in the system , the discriminatory policies and loss to America because of the system. We definitely have to raise the following 2 issues
- recapture of lost visas over past years
- Per country visa limit
If we send thousands of these recordings as I-Reports to CNN over 2-3 days period, CNN will definitely do a story on our issue and that will catch public attention. We can decide to remain anonymous when sending the I-Reports too. We can probably do similar stuff with other news media. This will cost us nothing and will create enough news to drag attention.
What's your opinion on this ?
We can not win this battle without attention from visual media like News Channel.
Traditionally we Indians are known to be camera shy silent listeners. But without the news and print media this issue will not catch enough attention from Washington to be debated. So, we have to come out of our shells and share emotional stories over news media. An inexpensive way of doing this without having to travel to any place would be to just switch on our webcam or camcorder and speak. We have to speak about the pains and put it into a story format. The content should highlight on the inefficiencies in the system , the discriminatory policies and loss to America because of the system. We definitely have to raise the following 2 issues
- recapture of lost visas over past years
- Per country visa limit
If we send thousands of these recordings as I-Reports to CNN over 2-3 days period, CNN will definitely do a story on our issue and that will catch public attention. We can decide to remain anonymous when sending the I-Reports too. We can probably do similar stuff with other news media. This will cost us nothing and will create enough news to drag attention.
What's your opinion on this ?
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alterego
10-26 12:03 AM
Hi Ahimsa and other poster who questioned this:
Why SKULL bill ? As a high level manager I have learned after years of experience that you need to use good sense of humor, satirize when confronted with insanities and very stressful situations. In my life such a twaddle this immigration process has been that I need to come up to this forum and sometimes make some of us laugh a little bit from this situation. Calling it SKULL bill is a way to apply my sense of humor to this process. Please do not take this as an offense.
Please, please. Folks, didn't you see immigration-law.com and AILA.org - a reliable pro immigration sources - outlining that that anti CIR calls outnumbered the pro CIR calls 400:1 ? Go to AILA.org and research the info there by yourself if you don't trust me.
One more indication for you, which doesn't rely on biased polls:
In spite of massive lobby and muscles leveraged by the corporate sector, why do you think immigration bills - both pro legal and pro illegal - have been unsuccessful in the last two years ? Come on guys, by now you should not be questioning whether the public is against amnesty or even legal immigration. It is evident that the majority of citizens do not benefit from more immigration. Do you have an idea how much lobbying $ got involved on this without much success so far ? I am surprised that you are even raising this question. Why Americans should want more foreigners to compete with them when the real wages have declined ? That would defy logic.
Here, a fresh related evidence. Those who have an open mind should be able to understand this:
http://diversity.monster.com/articles/coming_to_america/?WT.mc_n=MNL000283
Does the Workplace Welcome Differ?
Are Americans more welcoming to Asian immigrants than to Hispanics/Latinos? C.N. Le, who directs the Asian American Studies Program at the University of Massachusetts, calls it "a complicated issue." She thinks that "Americans in general are becoming slightly less welcoming to immigrants in general. Part of it has to do with illegal immigration, but it spills over and affects legal immigrants too. There is always workplace tension between those who gets jobs, and those who get left out."
Talk about this article and get advice on the Diversity at Work message board.
Here is a fresh poll for you, since you asked:
source:numbersusa.com (the poll was not conducted by numbersusa.com though).
QUESTION A: If immigration continues at its current level for the next 50 years, experts estimate that it will add approximately 100 million people to the United States population, which currently is 300 million. Knowing this, would you say the country needs to:
% SAYING
NOTE: Typically, poll results for categories are released to the public in rounded numbers that will tend not to add up precisely to 100%.
REDUCE number of immigrants INCREASE number of immigrants Keep number the same Not sure
ALL VOTERS 64 3 26 6
Male 64 3 26 6
Female 65 2 26 6
PARTY
Democrat 59 2 32 6
Independent 59 4 31 4
Republican
Immigration is a demographic imperative for America and the rest of the western world. Fact is the modern western cultures that empower women, encourage them to the workplace, make contraception/abortion freely available and make alternative lifestyles a choice, leads to a drop in fertility rates. Liberal leaning countries have amongst the lowest fertility rates, well below replacement levels.
The above makes it an imperative to import labour and yes sheer people to take care of the old and infirm, to keep the service sector rolling even if manufacturing etc is outsourced. The only question is what kind of immigration and how much of it. In short the answer is the USA is not a dumb country, it generally always acts in its self interest faced with these choices. I believe EB immigration will soon be liberalised. This would be a smart thing especially if coupled with a crackdown on illegal immigration.
US population is growing yes, but the elderly population is exploding. More are getting older (baby boomers) and once there there they are sticking aroung longer. I wish there was a measure of working age population only, the growth of that population is probably much less than that of the general population.
Why SKULL bill ? As a high level manager I have learned after years of experience that you need to use good sense of humor, satirize when confronted with insanities and very stressful situations. In my life such a twaddle this immigration process has been that I need to come up to this forum and sometimes make some of us laugh a little bit from this situation. Calling it SKULL bill is a way to apply my sense of humor to this process. Please do not take this as an offense.
Please, please. Folks, didn't you see immigration-law.com and AILA.org - a reliable pro immigration sources - outlining that that anti CIR calls outnumbered the pro CIR calls 400:1 ? Go to AILA.org and research the info there by yourself if you don't trust me.
One more indication for you, which doesn't rely on biased polls:
In spite of massive lobby and muscles leveraged by the corporate sector, why do you think immigration bills - both pro legal and pro illegal - have been unsuccessful in the last two years ? Come on guys, by now you should not be questioning whether the public is against amnesty or even legal immigration. It is evident that the majority of citizens do not benefit from more immigration. Do you have an idea how much lobbying $ got involved on this without much success so far ? I am surprised that you are even raising this question. Why Americans should want more foreigners to compete with them when the real wages have declined ? That would defy logic.
Here, a fresh related evidence. Those who have an open mind should be able to understand this:
http://diversity.monster.com/articles/coming_to_america/?WT.mc_n=MNL000283
Does the Workplace Welcome Differ?
Are Americans more welcoming to Asian immigrants than to Hispanics/Latinos? C.N. Le, who directs the Asian American Studies Program at the University of Massachusetts, calls it "a complicated issue." She thinks that "Americans in general are becoming slightly less welcoming to immigrants in general. Part of it has to do with illegal immigration, but it spills over and affects legal immigrants too. There is always workplace tension between those who gets jobs, and those who get left out."
Talk about this article and get advice on the Diversity at Work message board.
Here is a fresh poll for you, since you asked:
source:numbersusa.com (the poll was not conducted by numbersusa.com though).
QUESTION A: If immigration continues at its current level for the next 50 years, experts estimate that it will add approximately 100 million people to the United States population, which currently is 300 million. Knowing this, would you say the country needs to:
% SAYING
NOTE: Typically, poll results for categories are released to the public in rounded numbers that will tend not to add up precisely to 100%.
REDUCE number of immigrants INCREASE number of immigrants Keep number the same Not sure
ALL VOTERS 64 3 26 6
Male 64 3 26 6
Female 65 2 26 6
PARTY
Democrat 59 2 32 6
Independent 59 4 31 4
Republican
Immigration is a demographic imperative for America and the rest of the western world. Fact is the modern western cultures that empower women, encourage them to the workplace, make contraception/abortion freely available and make alternative lifestyles a choice, leads to a drop in fertility rates. Liberal leaning countries have amongst the lowest fertility rates, well below replacement levels.
The above makes it an imperative to import labour and yes sheer people to take care of the old and infirm, to keep the service sector rolling even if manufacturing etc is outsourced. The only question is what kind of immigration and how much of it. In short the answer is the USA is not a dumb country, it generally always acts in its self interest faced with these choices. I believe EB immigration will soon be liberalised. This would be a smart thing especially if coupled with a crackdown on illegal immigration.
US population is growing yes, but the elderly population is exploding. More are getting older (baby boomers) and once there there they are sticking aroung longer. I wish there was a measure of working age population only, the growth of that population is probably much less than that of the general population.
more...
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delhiguy
07-08 08:47 PM
macaca, This is really good point
There could be 3 reasons , which i could think of
1. The CIR, which was providing amnesty to aroun 12 million illegal residents in the US,so they wanted to keep the legal residents happy.
2.The DOS wanted to force USCIS to finish its backlog, if the dates were current and USCIS would have to accept our applications then they would have to process a lot of EAD/AP and would required a lot of work, They could put the 485 in queue but not AP/EAD. So the only way for USCIS was to process the backlog(At least many legal residents got GCS)
3.USCIS wanted to avoid accepting these applications till July 30, to get more fees( I think this is the least possible reason)
There could be 3 reasons , which i could think of
1. The CIR, which was providing amnesty to aroun 12 million illegal residents in the US,so they wanted to keep the legal residents happy.
2.The DOS wanted to force USCIS to finish its backlog, if the dates were current and USCIS would have to accept our applications then they would have to process a lot of EAD/AP and would required a lot of work, They could put the 485 in queue but not AP/EAD. So the only way for USCIS was to process the backlog(At least many legal residents got GCS)
3.USCIS wanted to avoid accepting these applications till July 30, to get more fees( I think this is the least possible reason)
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delax
08-21 02:13 PM
delax,
What is your service center?
Below are the details for self and spouse
Aug 13 - soft LUD
Aug 14 - Approval notice sent
Aug 15 - soft LUD. status is still Approval notice sent
My service center is TSC.
TSC! - 485 was mailed, accepted, receipted, processed and approved at TSC.
What is your service center?
Below are the details for self and spouse
Aug 13 - soft LUD
Aug 14 - Approval notice sent
Aug 15 - soft LUD. status is still Approval notice sent
My service center is TSC.
TSC! - 485 was mailed, accepted, receipted, processed and approved at TSC.
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EB3_SEP04
08-12 06:23 PM
What I did till now.
1) Contacted Senator/Congressman/Governor
2) Filled 7001 form for Ombudsman
3) Called USCIS 10 times in last 10 days and come to know that everything is cleared on my and wife applications.
4) Strange thing applied EAD on July 15th 2008 and got approved today august 12 2008.
Did you do all this for EAD?
1) Contacted Senator/Congressman/Governor
2) Filled 7001 form for Ombudsman
3) Called USCIS 10 times in last 10 days and come to know that everything is cleared on my and wife applications.
4) Strange thing applied EAD on July 15th 2008 and got approved today august 12 2008.
Did you do all this for EAD?
santb1975
11-22 12:01 AM
Keep up the good spirits
Gurus,
I have a unique position. couple of weeks back I was told that have fatal cancer and won't live pass 4-6 months. After recovering from initial shock I am wondering if my wife will be able to continue her american dream or she will have to head home after me.
I have filed 485 with approved 140 back in june, 2007 with PD of March, 2003
Please help.
Mehul
Gurus,
I have a unique position. couple of weeks back I was told that have fatal cancer and won't live pass 4-6 months. After recovering from initial shock I am wondering if my wife will be able to continue her american dream or she will have to head home after me.
I have filed 485 with approved 140 back in june, 2007 with PD of March, 2003
Please help.
Mehul
rayoflight
05-19 05:02 PM
Thanks so much for your quick reply and the phone number with the options. What does R.no stand for?
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